Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. The problem is non-existent. Time will tell if no. I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. Theres still the P938 extractors snapping they refuse to acknowledge. I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. No, it doesnt. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. My trust for Sig stopped after they produced the beloved Sig556xi Russian. MIM strikers made in India and put into Sigs. So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. Sig P320 discharge while holstered. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? The Glock fails on both counts. Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. Where is that defect now? That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. The main difference is that the M&P never had the problem the p320 did with trigger mass. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. Where is this lightning striking twice? You couldnt ask questions. . Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. It has nothing to do with Glock. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. The cost of settlements will be passed on to us. There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. He was told to shoot two rounds. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. . The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. . Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. And have the dropping 320 go off? Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. Weird how that might happen. 00:03. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. But breaking news here, skippy. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. Because its flat out bull**it. People who know how to handle guns prudently and safely. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. I am still waiting for the UPS man (not from the devil but from Sig) I will not hold my breath. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. People who had problems have been replacing them with Lightning Strike SS ones. People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. A fine of up to $10,000. Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! Zero in the affirmative. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. According to Section 22.05 of the Texas Penal Code, engaging in deadly conduct with a firearm is considered a felony of the third degree. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. who sells them? Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? The Collette suit, for example, lists 39 such discharges, all but five of which involved law enforcement officers. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. LOL! But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. Nope. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. . But as Officer Hilton says, There is no way anything could have gotten into my purseinto the trigger guard and pulled that trigger., This ABC report includes an interview with Joshua Harrison, a firearms expert hired by the network to examine the P320s design and give his opinion of its safety. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. BAM. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. Fair enough. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. As for Seals they have their own contract with Glock but can carry anything they want. Have heard of no issues like the alleged gremlin caused spontaneous discharges of the P320 in other Sig models. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. But were way past the days of major league, internationally known gunmakers turning out complete crap, selling it and the public living with it. Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. It was one of the first ones and was sent back as a voluntary upgrade. Either the gun is defective or its not. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. The new Kirk does suck. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of . selling the 365 with strikers breaking? So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. It was expensive. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. Quit blaming cops or the military, these guns have a serious problem. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. Period. In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. There was nothing wrong with the Glock action, it was a training issue. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. That focus drifts. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. A lot like carrying a cocked and locked 1911 but with the safety off. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. They admitted their problem and fixed it. Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. The problem with Sig is with their polymer pistols. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. 1:07. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. Sig Sauer's P320 is widely used by police departments across the country, and is a big seller in the civilian market, with about half a million sold nationwide. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. . This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. They habitually use their customers as the product testers by selling what are essentially prototypes while quietly implementing rolling revisions. They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. Wheee!!. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? Dude, your story is THREE years old. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. Its hard to say yet but with anything follow the basic safety rules. congrats. Note also that ABC didnt provide any context for the number of suits filed against SIG. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. In the former case, you would need upward movement coming to a sudden stop to bump up the drop safety at the same time you imparted rearward momentum to the gun to try and move the striker. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? Ron, Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. The thing I hate is getting kicked around! SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. Companies stay silent The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. I continue to bet my life on them. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. Frankly, I think that ship is the best looking sci-fi ship design ever, with the Excelsior a very close second. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. It has been flawless so far. TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. Grow up, you aint all that! Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. (unless theyre SWAT or something). Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! The details are not out yet, but they use Glocks, and I will make a good bet that her trigger finger did the deed. I agree that Glock is sitting on their laurels and has been for decades.