Its an update of its 12C27 and 13C26 steels, which were developed for use in shaving razors. So what is the best steel for knives? My favorites of the high edge retention group are Vanadis 8 and CPM-10V. I forgot, I got the higher carbon steels will have higher edge retention from this website. Things are similar with resistance to chipping and edge deformation. These steels are best for knives that dont see impacts and are some of the most difficult to sharpen. im led to believe tha the melting procedure is more important with these steels than the exact composition. It was your original article on ratings that brought me to knifesteel nerds so its great to see your results put back into a form that will no doubt be distributed \ plagiarized widely, hopefully leading to more rational thought and better understanding by the knife consuming public (not that the misleading marketing will go away). worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). What it is: D2 is a carbon tool steel with a relatively high chromium content, prompting some to call it a "semi-stainless" steel. But Ive found it lacking in hardness, even when compared to cheaper steels like AUS-8. However, even steel with the best corrosion resistance can rust without proper care. This showed that XHP and ZDP-189 have significantly lower corrosion resistance than other stainless steels. Spyderco announced Native 5 Salt with magnacut, but I saw test of magnacut with salt water and it grows corrosionso Salt with magnacut could be a flop. Tanto Thanks to its very high hardness (64-66 HRc compared to the average of 58-62 HRc), ZDP-189 can be ground thinner and sharpened less often. Alloying elements are an important ingredient vital in getting the best steel for the job. The hardenable grade of titanium (Beta C Titanium) reaches up to 45 or so rc. But as the market has grown and newer steels have come out, it has fallen in price and prestige. 14C28N steel is the improved version of 13C26 with better rust resistance. We use a subsize, unnotched chapy test with 2.5 x 10 x 55 mm dimensions. Vg10 and cpms45vn same toughness at same hardness ? On the other hand the professional performing blade steels sharpen to a razor edge and hold the edge for an extended use. D2 knives offer higher edge retention than 14C28N knives, which is attributed to the high carbon elements and hardness of D2. . An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. One argument I see consistently leveled against 8Cr13MoV compared to AUS-8 is that of the consistency of the composition. Also, if you want a fishing knife, 14c28n steel will survive better in wet areas than D2. 14C28N knives will handle challenging and demanding applications without chipping, cracking, or breaking. It is a premium steel that is known for its excellent balance of hardness, corrosion resistance, and edge retention. The studies confirmed that the primary controlling factors are hardness of the steel, volume of carbides, and hardness of the carbides. Theyll be fully attributed to you with website and Patreon links, obviously. They were two different tests (different batch of steel, different person heat treating, etc). In use, its very similar to 440C and VG-10. Pretty interesting that regrinding a knife you already have can seemingly take its performance to that of significantly better steels. Micarta Its not bad, but you can find better in the market at the same price. AEB-L I see very little about cryo outside of journal articles, and I wonder which knifemakers use it. If you want to check the quality of my work, just search for The EDC Bible on Amazon. Thank you for putting this together, incredibly useful! Moreover, the blades will serve you longer because they do not wear out faster with frequent use and sharpening. Take a look at this edge retention test. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Sandvik later came out with 14C28N which is a slightly improved version of 13C26. Any idea where it would be on the hardness and toughness scales? ZDP-189 can tarnish, though not as easily as 3V. CPM 4V Is it similar but worse or better at one of the 3 things? The highest edge retention steel was Rex 121 which was at 70 Rc in combination with lots of high hardness vanadium carbides. How do its properties compare to other steels? Is 440A really that much better than 420HC, or have you found a narrower gap? Jesse Jarosz, a custom maker from Montana, regularly uses AEB-L. What would you rate the toughness of CPM-D2. Why do knives make the best gifts? Three main characteristics differentiate steels from one another: corrosion resistance, hardness, and toughness. For example, the Si space is blank for several of the carbon steels because they have a relatively wide acceptable range, not because the element isnt added. whats even more disturbing is that cvn and fracture toughness sometimes (often?) document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. But its very cheap, and, when ground appropriately, it can be a real winner from a value standpoint. However, there are other factors. does 1.4116 deserve the title of title of ultimate trash steel? I wrote an article about knife steel ratings available online in 2018, where I concluded that none of them were very good. 9cr18mov vs 14c28n. Almost all of the knives in my EDC rotation are Spydercos, in exotic steels. -> Maybe prequenched 14c28n could be a little tougher than AEB-L? Give it a couple of weeks, and feedback will start pouring in. the following is not a critique, just a few thoughts to maybe put the relationships into a wider perspective and point to additional dimensions. nevertheles its importand to keep in mind what exactly is going on there (abrasive plastic media, loss of most of cutting ability during the first few strokes etc.). Maxamet is one of two current high-hardness kings, with HRc marks in the high 60s approaching 70, a hardness usually only seen in carbide steels. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 6/10: 6/10: CIVIVI Knives Elementum Folding Pocket Knife 2.96" D2 Satin Blade . The ratings I have are for an optimal heat treatment. Have you tested K390 sufficiently to be able to rate it? Nitro V vs 14C28N Last but not least, 14C28N contains comparatively more vanadium elements which makes the carbides more harder and strong, which gives 14C28N a better edge retention. Divers, sailors, and anglers need knives that will resist corrosion above all else. It would be interesting to try to develop a conversation between /geometry/edge retention/toughness, so we could say e.g. Anthony Sculimbrene authors the blog EverydayCommentary.com. 14C28N steel is not very hard steel which makes it easier to sharpen. CPM 154 1. I have a (relatively) short introduction before getting into the ratings with a few important things to put them into context. Thanks Larrin, If the properties of a knife meet your knife needs and it has the above characteristics, then it qualifies as a quality knife. This grade can be treated cryogenically to improve edge retention. The study of steel is now so complex and nuanced that one can acquire a graduate degree in the subject and still learn new things every day. The following are less common steels, but theyre definitely worth tracking down. They differ little in composition and treatment. 14c28n vs D2 Steel. 420HC, 420, and 5160 all offer off-the-charts toughness. Ease of Sharpening: One advantage of 8Cr13MoV is that it is easier to sharpen than D2 steel. 420 Simple, non-stainless steels of medium carbon content like 5160 also boast high toughness. Youre right I had to check my spreadsheet. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. REX 121 is a powder steel produced by Crucible. So you can estimate how much a change in hardness would affect edge retention by following the slope of those lines. then you have zirconia and diamond coated blades. Heres a brief description of their impact on the resulting steels properties. can you strike twice as fast with the knife? Diamond and CBN stones make sharpening those steels easier. Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! In fact, its not technically a steel at all, as it uses titanium and nickel. Hello LARRIN, do you have a Rough estimate on when ApexUltra (as well as more Magnacut) will become available? With toughness it is a bit harder to link to only one article as I dont really have a summary of all of the toughness testing that we have done. Low Carbon steels like AEB-L wont hold up to wood cutting even though it can hit 64 hard, it just doesnt have enough Carbon. The Sandvik 14c28n steel is ideal for the manufacturing of steel knife blades. I used to work for a company that did reclaimed old growth lumber (swamp cedar, old growth pine and oak beams, etc) and we went through planer blades twice as fast as the cabinetry shop next door (turns out the neighbors like it when you put all the loud businesses together and far away), which mostly cut fresh cherry, oak, maple, hickory etc. We all have our preference, but overall, preference leans towards the pocket knife with a clip. drop point Hello everyone I've been loking into twosun knives recently. Steels that can be high in edge retention and toughness are desirable for general use knives. Read more about how it works here. 14C28N is a stainless steel that was developed specifically for use in knives. Blue Super and 1.2562 have higher edge retention but relatively low toughness. High alloy tool steels are designed to be air hardening, so they can be cooled even slower than the oil hardening steels found above. Therefore powder metallurgy is not necessary for certain steels, or could even be slightly detrimental. 1. 12C27 steel is extremely popular in the US knife market for its high hardness, high wear resistance, and great corrosion resistance. Below shows approximate maximum hardness vs stainless rating for several stainless knife steels. Read our full Sobata 398 review here. Most steels use carbon to increase hardness, but 14C28N uses nitrogen, boosting hardness without the normal penalty of increased corrosion. I couldnt find much on 5160 steel and from a knife makers point of view if you are saying youre the preferred supplier of special ops than I dont understand this choice in knife steel. How would n680 compare to m690? Im not hating on 80crv2 , Ive used it. As with high alloy tool steels, the amount of vanadium can be a shortcut to predicting the general level of wear resistance and edge retention. Let the job at hand be your guide. Thanks to Bill Smutz, Alex Topfer, Florian Bachler, Brunhard, Art, Rod H, Sach, Jinny Koh, Jon Duda, Cory Henderson, and UPKnife for becoming Knife Steeel Nerds Patreon supporters! This was described in this article on Vanax heat treating. . Like 154CM, its a good compromise between all three steel attributes. 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. On the spreadsheet, youve grouped AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV. If you are looking for a high-end knife on a budget, the varieties of both steel will serve you. Cool! But weve tested this metal in the form of the Sobata 398 for nearly a year and have been continually impressed. The knife Natrix with substantial copper handle is a deceptively hefty EDC. Vanax and LC200N are unique in reaching 59-60 Rc while being very stain resistant. Continue with Recommended Cookies. I also added a few more steels in this study. My name is Jonathan M, and Im a passionate Mechanical Engineer, a knife enthusiast, and the author of this website. Which knife for best? Vanadium carbides are very large with conventional production of steels but are very small with powder metallurgy. It also tops out around 60-61 Rc like LC200N and needs relatively careful heat treating to even be that hard. Editors note: This article was first published in May 2015 and was most recently updated on May 25, 2020. The hardness of the carbides does not matter much unlike with edge retention. There has been some internet controversy over the grinding and heat treat of this steel. s30v Anyway, buff up the O1v and it cuts leather easily. This particular steel grade allows for the highest attainable hardness without. Ive found that most makers harden S30V too much, making it prone to chipping at the edge. 1% saltwater will separate between other stainless steels. and yet millons of knives are being made out of 1.4116 (aisi 420mov?) S35VN Vanadium carbides are among the hardest that form in steel, and chromium carbides are in between iron carbide and vanadium carbide. In reality hardly difference. I mean the box cutter type, with the replaceable trapezoidal blades. CPM154 is a truly superior steel. Because of its abrasion-eating hardness, knives with REX 121 come at an exceptionally high price. Note that corrosion is detrimental for the cutting edge. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. The main downside is the steel is more difficult to heat treat and cant go harder than about 60 or perhaps 61 Rc. Poor heat treatment can make a knife too hard, too soft, hard to sharpen, easy to deform, or cause other issues. ApexUltra is a steel that we are working on that had excellent properties in small batch production (50 lbs). A lot of custom makers also like S110V, including the great RJ Martin. Maxamets hardness results in incredible edge retention and a nightmarish sharpening and machining experience. Below shows a comparison of carbide structure between D2 and CPM-D2, and then toughness measurements between the conventional and PM versions of CruWear, D2, and 154CM. 2. third and most important is what happened to the burr. In general, higher carbon steels have higher edge retention but lower toughness. This is a midprice steel with matching performance. 1.4116 Where the black-finished 1.4116 version has a simple, full flat grind, the D2 version has a compound flat grind that ends halfway up the blade's height. Its hard to say. I measured corrosion resistance of a slightly lower carbon 420 here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/02/cpm-spy27-experiments-toughness-corrosion-resistance-and-more/. The D2 version is heavier and harder, but doesn't cut as smoothly. With conventional steels this limited vanadium additions to about 4-5%, and this was greatly expanded when powder metallurgy was developed. Anyway, astute comment, but edge retention does mean a lot in woodworking. Many steel ratings articles pay lip service to the importance of heat treatment without providing examples. However, I would argue that pure material removal is usually not the limiting step for ease in sharpening. So for most steels they are given a rating at around 59-62 Rc, apart from a few steels that are never used at that hardness. Thanks in advance, Simon, For hard use everyday cutting in a packing company, Everything from fome, cardboard, tape, thick plastics, And plastic wrap that is against metal. I havent tested Sleipner yet. All three of these steels havechromium, molybdenum, vanadium, and tungsten components and will perform well in myriad tasks. Or, is this perhaps a historically useful practice that made sense on softer/less tough steels, but would make less sense on some newer steels that can be used at higher hardness and thus higher edge stability? This list is not exhaustive, so check out some of our rating tables for more information on whatever steel youre interested in. CPM-REX 121 and Maxamet are both in this category. It can withstand a lot of wear and tear. Less expensive, conventionally produced steels include VG-10, D2, 154CM, N690, and 440C. This is a bit of a guess because I cant find un-notched Charpy data on it. We looked at common steels used by popular knife brands to help you select the right material for your blade. Vancron has a very fine microstructure so it would be tough to beat. D2. Note just because a blade is made from the premium or high-end steels listed above does not automatically mean its better than the lesser steels. Because of their good edge retention, these steels are quite versatile in folders and fixed blades. It's more often pitted against the VG10 since both are widely popular high-carbon stainless steel grades. Most production knives are more than thick enough at the edge to accommodate a regrind to significantly improve performance, and its a lot cheaper than buying a new knife a lot of the time. its like with cars, most of them are not a corvette or a porsche. When we plot toughness vs edge retention on a log scale instead we get a straight line that is a better visualization of toughness differences. CTS-204P and CPM-20CV are nearly identical steels made by other manufacturers. This refers to the angle of your edge and the thickness of the knife behind the edge. Thanks again for everything you're doing, it's a tremendous resource. edge retention can vary by several orders of magnitude depending on what happens to the burr. Corrosion Resistance: D2 steel has a higher chromium content than 8Cr13MoV, which makes it better at resisting corrosion and wear. I like it in the Seki City Spydercos, but I would like to know what ratings you would give it. This is about comparing steels to each other rather than a limitation of an individual steel. You can read an article I wrote on budget steels here. It has a lower hardness and edge retention as compared to the 9Cr knife. Having 1.5% Carbon does that. Heat treatment and edge geometry can mean more for knife performance than the specific steel used in the knife. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Some of these steels also have vanadium (CruForgeV) or tungsten (Blue Super, V-Toku2, 1.2519) for increased wear resistance. Stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion but remember that stainless steels stain less, and most of them will still rust in the right conditions. AR-RPM9 But the true calling card of INFI is its insane toughness. VG 10 Steel, https://knifebasics.com/author/freelancer/, How To Choose Between The 14C28N And The D2, 14c28n Steel Is Good for Knife? Five years ago, S30V had a premium price. The big names in powder metallurgy are Crucible (CPM- steels), Carpenter (CTS- steels), Bohler Microclean (M390), and Uddeholm Superclean (Elmax, Vanax). I test corrosion resistance of steels by heat treating 1 x 1.5 inch coupons, finishing to about 400 grit, and then spraying with water. grivory Read more. One such person is Dr. Larrin Thomas, a professional metallurgist raised by a knife maker and a giant knife nerd. But which? rex 121 Actually, Id be thinking 14C28N, but I want to leave stainless out. They made planer blades out D2 for its edge retention. H1 Now that is power planer blades, but the principle stands, less carbon and alloy isnt the best for wood working and Id use a steel like 26C3 (1.25% C .30%Cr) for my hand tools and temper them to around 62 hard and use the best angle for wood shaving, not the best angle for cutting rope. Rust Test includes:D2 from Bestech and WE1095 from shop8Cr13Mov from Spyderco420HC from BuckWalmart knifeY Start (Marked D2)Follow me at:Twitter: https://twi. And Ive done a lot of experimental work on knife steels where I feel more confident in my own ratings. how much more can you bend/pry with it? Everything you need to know to buy the right knife for the job. Stainless steels are another subset of high alloy tool steels that have enough chromium in them to have stainless levels of corrosion resistance. Read more. Working closely with our factory the heat treating of this steel has been perfected resulting in excellent performance for the price. Edge retention often refers to the ability of a knifes edge to maintain its sharpness during use. Steel softens as tempering temperature increases, but certain steels see an increase in hardness in a certain higher temperature range such as shown below for high speed steels that are designed for this type of tempering: This high temperature tempering can be done for several reasons, such as better resistance to overheating during grinding, or because a coating will be applied to the knife that requires a high temperature. Its hard enough, tough enough, and stain-resistant enough. compare different heat treats of the same component, it lacks a theoretical foundation and its not clear how to relate it to the real world. As a side note, pure tungsten carbide blades (from brands like Sandrin) can have very high levels of edge retention, but they are not made of steel. The big difference in properties vs the low alloy steels, however, are the harder carbides that are found in these steels. So setting edge geometry for the type of knife and intended use is very important. As wear resistance is increased the differences between conventional and powder metallurgy steels become greater. The knives can be used in humid and wet environments without rusting. 14C28N knives are better than D2 knives in corrosion resistance. No idea. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. These properties make steel a good choice for making kitchen, fishing, and everyday knives. But among the steels youll find at Cabelas and the like, this is a pretty good choice. Ive found S35VN less chippy even at the same hardness. Wear resistance, be it high or low, is the most significant determining factor in ease of sharpening. Around 61 Rc usually.